“Concerned Citizens of Saratoga Springs”

NOTICE: This post is not a very nice post on my side.  I am tired of this type of crap when it comes to politics, and I do not hold back any punches on this post.  If you don’t want to hear me rant, then DONT read it.

Yikes….   I received the following email yesterday that was addressed to me, the Bishops, Clerks, Stake Leaders, and Executive Secretaries from several local Latter Day Saint wards.  (Let me first say, that it is against Church policy to send any political or commercial email to people you get from Church rolls, directories or Church related communications.)

Below is the email that I received.


Attached is a letter, sent to the Saratoga Springs Mayor and City Council.

We are trying to get the word out, to be heard by our local leaders…

Please spread the word.


Concerned Citizens of Saratoga Springs Utah

For the computer geeks out there, here is the header information (originating IP, etc) of the email.

Delivered-To: mkieff@gmail.com Received: by with SMTP id x34csp255183weq;         Thu, 6 Sep 2012 16:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <ccossut@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ccossut@gmail.com designates as permitted sender) client-ip= Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ccossut@gmail.com designates as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ccossut@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=ccossut@gmail.com Received: from mr.google.com ([])         by with SMTP id ls6mr4844525obc.36.1346973864010 (num_hops = 1);         Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:24:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;         d=gmail.com; s=20120113;         h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type;         bh=0E8WKYLf74gPtlFF53Z/wb45V1ZnSvi5cWDZD85q7lo=;         b=wCHk/8QOxgTHEba+hIIbV78qx2Ft/8+weBtaDP7K5yNFGcrjAwbPPcpjBZAopdsh8Q          w4bB7XoHzOg8V7P+fKcELyBIqx+Oa8n+KXVx+yoNrrzRR+SC875I5Q7PNns4clR/FfQk          jBv5mZ8zGMCIUaPtrp8lQIXqrkqldbeL6kSx/2yjGxn3Bw5a+ZEzzSjqphsGKBAAMrNm          SZPkltYXHNkY88DnwVf75nvnEvnufp3CiHTnFsWdSmzGo2BLg0K2zvldTWY9JeWGYfHd          002Gq2tv4nbCEGflqDTyKb22yfgJySGqESouWbrom0EoWuncjcQko0rjfzJVA5qPgo+M          LrSQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by with SMTP id ls6mr4032883obc.36.1346973863974; Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by with HTTP; Thu, 6 Sep 2012 16:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 17:24:23 -0600 Message-ID: <CAFRznRQbgOhdoWk+X9Tp8zf3H7rNa7Ntq4GHW5T0R=BoSa2hUQ@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Concerned Citizens of Saratoga Springs… From: Billy Thorton ccossut@gmail.com

Here is a link to the .PDF file that was attached.  CITY-LETTER.pdf.

Before I get into the specifics of the letter, I want EVERYONE to know that I do not agree with the letter, and I in no way endorse what the letter says, or consider myself part of this “Concerned Citizens of Saratoga Springs Utah” group.  I also think that anyone who has something to say should say it as themselves, and not hide behind a fake name (Billy Thorton, there are not tax records for anyone named that in Saratoga Springs), and a throw away gmail.com email address (ccossut@gmail.com – I am guessing it stands for Concerned Citizens of Saratoga Springs Utah).  I know, I know, the come back for this will be…  “But the City and Police will come after me and make my life miserable.”  Really?  By complaining with your REAL name, and letting people know you are complaining, actually gives you a good form of protection.  (I have done some complaining, and by using my real name it has increased the City’s willingness to help me with the issues.)  You then can later say, you are treating me different than everyone else because of what I said.  Hiding behind false names does not do anything but make it so that your claims can’t be validated.  And by saying you represent a group of people, but never define who belongs to that group of people, it makes it look like you are a small group wants everyone to think you are more than a handful of individuals.

Personally, the reason I think this person is not really identifying themselves is because they have something to hide that would hurt their cause.  Maybe the person is not liked in the community. Maybe the person is guilty of some crime and is using this as a way to get back at the city for something they are guilty of.   Maybe the person has said all of this before, and is trying to just rehash something that was already put to bed.  Those are just a couple of things that came to my mind.

I also think that if you want to change the political process you should avoid over generalizations, and give specific examples.   If you see a problem, just don’t complain about it, but you should come up with answers and solutions and help the process by working to get those solutions implemented.

Ok, back to the letter.  If you want to make a statement, and want people to take you seriously, make sure you proof read your letter first.  Broken sentences, bad grammar, wrong words, and incomplete sentences only distract from your message.

Example:  “Many of us, citizens of Saratoga Springs, have a number of concerns, in regards to Our City, and how things are being run, by you, are Elected Leaders..”   First off, it should be OUR not ARE elected leaders.  Second, well, just read the sentence and you can see what I am talking about.

Now lets go over each of the points this letter makes.  I found the letter hard to follow, so I am going to just highlight some of the main points I see in the letter.


Dear, Mr. Billy Thorton, or whoever you really are, here is my response to your letter.

1st – Don’t blame the City for the law suits that are being filed.  Look at any city, and you will see that law suits are part of running a city, or any other corporation for that matter.  The people who should be the source of your anger should be the ones that are suing the city to get their pound of flesh.  (During the City Council election, I actually had several of the candidates that lost threaten me with lawsuits because of a post I made.)  You really think that a City can run without making someone mad, or a law suit coming up.  Please, list the ones you are aware of, and let us as citizens see if they could of been resolved before they became law suits.  Don’t talk as if you have some inside information you are not going to share.  (My guess is that you are the source of several of those lawsuits, that is why you are hiding who you really are.)

2nd – Excessive Spending.  Hey, maybe you did not know this, but there is a budget that is approved EVERY year by the City Council.  This budget is available prior to it being voted on.   Maybe instead of just complaining about the spending, you should read the budget, and then go talk to the City Council before they vote on it.   All of these, “latest and greatest” items are on the budget before they are purchased.  Get involved and question why before the money is approved.  BTW, did you know that we actually are making money with our police force by providing police services for other cities.  A lot of the new Police equipment is being paid for by other cities, make sure that you look at the budget and view the income as well as the expenses.

3rd – All I can say is Axe to grind, and over generalizations.  Sorry, but a police officer checking the speed of people on Redwood road is not a speed trap.  It is called enforcing the law.   Last time I checked, Redwood Road was a state road, so yes there are three sets of police that can give you a ticket?  Just don’t speed, and you wont have a problem.   And really, EVERYONE with a trailer is being pulled over?  Wow….  I have seen the Highway Patrol pull over more than the SSPD has.  (This is where I think that the person writing this letter is upset because they broke the law and had to pay for it.  My guess is that this person has a trailer, that was in violation of safety regulations and they received a ticket for it.  I am also guessing that this person was also asked to help with the mud slide, but was un willing to do so, because they received that ticket while pulling the eqiupment they were asked to help with.)   And when I was helping with the mud slide, there were a LOT of non city equipment helping out.  I personally think that the person who refused to help was thinking of, “I will teach the city a lesson”, instead of thinking of helping a fellow American.

4th- Federal funds….. SERIOUSLY, you think that the federal government can get a check to a city within 60 days?  And because of federal red tape you think the city is at fault for not receiving federal funds.  Have you EVER tried to get any money from the federal government?

5th – Laws and Laws…  Ok, you are right that some of the laws are unnecessary.  But you list two that are not even issues.  The bee law allows people to have bees (it was changed because some citizens worked with the city to change it.)  ATV Law, ok, so you are saying it is now not good for them to allow ATVs on the streets when it use to be illegal before they passed the law to allow it?  PLEASE, before you rant, check the city codes and make sure you know what you are talking about.  Yes, we do have some rights that come from GOD, but we also need some laws to keep those rights in place.  I personally like the laws that keep you from taking away my God given rights.  I don’t want your ATV driving through my front yard, or your dog digging up my flower beds.  Laws are necessary.  I am sorry you think all laws are designed to take away your rights.

6th – Taxes…  Yikes….  It cracks me up when people complain about taxes, but in the same letter want more services from the city.  These services are not free, and require money to make them happen.  If you increase services, you have to increase income to cover them.  Next time you want to complain about the cost of sewer, water  and garbage don’t complain to the city.  They contract other companies to do these things, and those other companies have raised their prices.  Go complain to those companies.  The city is not making MONEY off of you to provide you with sewer, water and garbage.


Mike Kieffer – A citizen of Saratoga Springs


Thanks for listening to my rant.  Don’t get me wrong, there are some things I don’t like about the way the City runs things.  A perfect example is the Chicken Policy.  I still have issues with it, and see it as an unnecessary policy.  But the majority of the things the city does, I agree with.  But then again, I see the police as an asset to the city, because I personally have not done anything illegal to get on their radar.  If you have a problem with the city, go to the city as yourself and work it out.  Don’t just spew a letter of generalizations with a shot gun approach and hope that something does stick.

I welcome your comments, as you can tell, I make a few assumptions about who Billy Thorton really is.  That proves one of the points I have.  If people are questioning who you are, and what your motives may be, they are not even going to take what you are saying seriously.  So Billy, let everyone know who you really are, and give us a list of who belongs to your group.  Then maybe we can take your rant seriously and not look at it as someone who got caught and now wants to remove those who caught him.